@exception You might want to try https://delta.chat/, it fits your definition exactly.
@delta Not having channel admin functionality is unfortunately a deal-breaker.
On another note: Auto-destructing messages are only half useful without perfect forward secrecy.
@exception @delta 90% as useful, I'd say. Apart from the NSA, most actors which could seize a device will not be able to get their hands on encrypted messages in transit.
And certainly more useful than having PFS, but no auto-destructing messages, like Element all the disadvantages of PFS, none of the perks
@exception @compl4xx did you talk to prosecutors in Belarusia, Georgia, Iran, Russia, china, .... To verify they can easily get data from outside chatmail servers in Poland, Sweden, germany, Italy ....? Leaving alone the fact that messages are constantly removed.from chatmail servers automatically.
Uh... you know XMPP isn't an app, right?
@Blort @exception Indeed, it's a whole ecosystem. Naming a specific client would not make much sense though, there are excellent options for every platform and they all have different names.
SimpleX has commercial servers, even if they're not used quite the same way as other chat services. Look at their privacy policy you'll see three separate sections dealing with them. Mainly they act as relays to help get messages from device to device if both aren't active at the same time. SimpleX Chat LTD (incorporated in the UK) doesn't disclose what countries they're in. They also have millions in VC funding, so #enshittification is just a matter of time.
@Blort @exception that's correct imho, but what you don't mention, should you not be sure, is the fact that you can run your own smp and xftp servers
@Blort @exception what you also don't mention is that the messages are deleted after delivery, they are then only available on the end devices
That's good to know. When I opened the SimpleX app it only seems to give options for two commercial providers. I didn't see any option to add an arbitrary server, like what Element does. Under Settings > Network & Servers, I the only options I see are #SImpleX Chat servers and Flux (their sponsor). Where do you add a self hosted server to the client app?
And yes, you're right, the messages aren't permanently stored on those servers. They seem to be more as a relay.
@exception what security issue are you concerned about?
@matrix Mostly the missing authentication of room management messages.
And the underlying issue that the E2EE protocols were all tacked on later instead of made as a whole from the beginning. This makes E2EE extremely hard to reason about implement correctly. The implementations are also hard to use securely by the user.
@matrix I think the basic mistake of Matrix is to allow non-E2EE communication in the first place. The next is to make the device in E2EE the first-class citizen instead of the user.